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Steve
Member
Posts: 221

Well, it looks like the patch the state put on dredging now includes non-powered hand devices like the Gold and Sand!!!!! :mad:

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I'm happiest when I hit rock bottom!!

July 1, 2013 at 9:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Scotty
Member
Posts: 521

tell me its not true. :o

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Scotty  EastbayChapter GPAA                                                    

July 1, 2013 at 10:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

stormscrambler
Member
Posts: 88

are you f---ing kidind me what the hell is wrong with this state

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i would rather sleep out side :D

July 2, 2013 at 12:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

DaleMyer
Administrator
Posts: 386

Can somebody give me a link to a site where the rules are posted? While we all feel this is BS, we need to know where the rules are in writing. Then if you are contacted in the field by "an official", you will know where you stand vs. assuming what they are telling you is correct.

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Dale "Bear" Myer
Communications Director and Website Admin
God Bless the late 155 Outhouse!

July 2, 2013 at 1:29 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mikeb
Member
Posts: 14
I got shut down last Saturday by fish and game for running a water pump. Check their web site for the Emergency suction law change. They are out taking pictures and taking names
July 2, 2013 at 1:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

joe davis squabman
Member
Posts: 93

make sure you have the PLP card so that information about a challenge to what ever you are doing can be sent to PLP.

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joe davis squabman

July 2, 2013 at 2:11 AM Flag Quote & Reply

LW
Member
Posts: 26

Here you go Dale. 

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/suctiondredge/

July 2, 2013 at 3:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

LW
Member
Posts: 26

5653.1. (a) The issuance of permits to operate vacuum or suction

dredge equipment is a project pursuant to the California

Environmental Quality Act (Division 13 (commencing with Section

21000) of the Public Resources Code) and permits may only be issued,

and vacuum or suction dredge mining may only occur as authorized by

any existing permit, if the department has caused to be prepared, and

certified the completion of, an environmental impact report for the

project pursuant to the court order and consent judgment entered in

the case of Karuk Tribe of California et al. v. California Department

of Fish and Game et al., Alameda County Superior Court Case No. RG

05211597.

(b) Notwithstanding Section 5653, the use of any vacuum or suction

dredge equipment in any river, stream, or lake of this state is

prohibited until the director certifies to the Secretary of State

that all of the following have occurred:

(1) The department has completed the environmental review of its

existing suction dredge mining regulations, as ordered by the court

in the case of Karuk Tribe of California et al. v. California

Department of Fish and Game et al., Alameda County Superior Court

Case No. RG 05211597.

(2) The department has transmitted for filing with the Secretary

of State pursuant to Section 11343 of the Government Code, a

certified copy of new regulations adopted, as necessary, pursuant to

Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3

of Title 2 of the Government Code.

(3) The new regulations described in paragraph (2) are operative.

(4) The new regulations described in paragraph (2) fully mitigate

all identified significant environmental impacts.

(5) A fee structure is in place that will fully cover all costs to

the department related to the administration of the program.

(c) (1) To facilitate its compliance with subdivision (b), the

department shall consult with other agencies as it determines to be

necessary, including, but not limited to, the State Water Resources

Control Board, the State Department of Public Health, and the Native

American Heritage Commission, and, on or before April 1, 2013, shall

prepare and submit to the Legislature a report with recommendations

on statutory changes or authorizations that, in the determination of

the department, are necessary to develop the suction dredge

regulations required by paragraph (2) of subdivision (b), including,

but not limited to, recommendations relating to the mitigation of all

identified significant environmental impacts and a fee structure

that will fully cover all program costs.

(2) The requirement for submitting a report imposed under this

subdivision is inoperative on January 1, 2017, pursuant to Section

10231.5 of the Government Code.

(3) The report submitted to the Legislature pursuant to this

subdivision shall be submitted in accordance with Section 9795 of the

Government Code.

(d) The Legislature finds and declares that this section, as

added during the 2009-10 Regular Session, applies solely to vacuum

and suction dredging activities conducted for instream mining

purposes. This section does not expand or provide new authority for

the department to close or regulate suction dredging conducted for

regular maintenance of energy or water supply management

infrastructure, flood control, or navigational purposes governed by

other state or federal law.

(e) This section does not prohibit or restrict nonmotorized

recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.

 

 

July 2, 2013 at 4:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Steve
Member
Posts: 221

That's old news. The new amendment kills any device used to vacuum material from the stream bottom and puts an end to any motorized equipment!!

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I'm happiest when I hit rock bottom!!

July 2, 2013 at 6:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Steve
Member
Posts: 221

The Department has adopted this Section and Section 228.5 pursuant to Fish and Game Code Section 5653.9 and to make specific and otherwise implement Fish and Game code Section 5653, specifically. Pursuant to that authority, the Department finds that suction dredging subject to and consistent with the requirements of Sections 288 and 228.5 will not be deleterious to fish.

(a) Definations.

 

(1) Suction dredging. For purposes of this Section 228 and Section 228.5, the use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment (i.e. suction dredging) is defined as the use of a suction system to vacuum material from a river, stream or lake for the extraction of minerals. These regulations do not apply to, prohibit or restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold.

July 2, 2013 at 7:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

joel1316
Member
Posts: 203

"These regulations do not apply to, prohibit or restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold."
Hand Suction is non-motorized; so we should be good right?

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Joel

July 2, 2013 at 10:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Steve
Member
Posts: 221

joel1316 at July 2, 2013 at 10:52 AM

"These regulations do not apply to, prohibit or restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for gold."
Hand Suction is non-motorized; so we should be good right?

Not necessarily, to defeat the possibility of gravity dredging they wrote it so no form of a vacuum type device can be used...motor or not!!! They're just saying you can still mine with pan and sluice as long as no motorized equipment or a vacuum device is used. The last time I looked, my hand dredge operated by forming a vacuum and sucking material off the bottom! I guess we can say goodbye to booming, highbanking and even power sluicing!! :mad:

July 2, 2013 at 3:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

DaleMyer
Administrator
Posts: 386

Thanks Aaron (LW) for the things you sent. I found the link to the emergency order that went into effect yesterday, 7/1/2013. Sadly, I interept it as hand suction devices are outlawwed. Dredge or Dredging is defined as an "excavation activity". That would make the hand suction devices dredge devices.

Emergency Dredge Rule Change 7/1/13

Steve, I don't see where this touches booming, high-banking or power sluicing. Unless you mean that's next........

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Dale "Bear" Myer
Communications Director and Website Admin
God Bless the late 155 Outhouse!

July 2, 2013 at 4:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

DaleMyer
Administrator
Posts: 386

Close call! This discussion reminded me that the guy I bought my A52 from years ago (because he was upgrading to a dredge) also "threw in" a homemade PVC suction sniping device. I tried it once and understood how he was able to part with it. It fit nicely in the toolbox in the bed of my pickup. I just retrieved it and put it away. Imagine getting a ticket for being in possession parked at my campsite at the 155 which is likely less than 100 yards from the water.  We need to get a handle on these ever-changing rules.

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Dale "Bear" Myer
Communications Director and Website Admin
God Bless the late 155 Outhouse!

July 2, 2013 at 5:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Steve
Member
Posts: 221

Dale, I was led to believe that all motorized equipment was banned too....am I wrong about this???

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I'm happiest when I hit rock bottom!!

July 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Steve
Member
Posts: 221

The way I understand it, you can't run a pump because the impeller creates a vacuum and it's suction is in the river. The change states no vacuum device can be used within the river for the collection of minerals which is what is occurring at the other end of the system. The way I read it, it is worded so any part of the water column is taboo.

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I'm happiest when I hit rock bottom!!

July 2, 2013 at 6:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

DaleMyer
Administrator
Posts: 386

I'm no attorney but the emergency dredge order refers to dredging. Dredging is the excavation of material from the bottom or sides of the river. I don't see how the removal of water with a pump is considered excavation work. I'm trying to find the DFW codes that cover mining techniques but have other business to tend to today. This dredging emergency order is in the pollution section of the DFW code. I'm watching for some advice from PLP or WMA but am pressed for time today.

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Dale "Bear" Myer
Communications Director and Website Admin
God Bless the late 155 Outhouse!

July 2, 2013 at 7:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Steve
Member
Posts: 221

Dale,

if you look above, Mikeb got shut down on Saturday running a pump! I think they are using the broad brush patch wording to further their own agenda!!! :(

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I'm happiest when I hit rock bottom!!

July 2, 2013 at 7:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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Member
Posts: 278

Where was mike. Some place clearly state that no motorized  pumps can be used. Gas or electric. Bear river and above the bridge at Mineral Bar are 2 such places

You can Highbank from the river in to the river. Dry material in to the river.. NO NO

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July 2, 2013 at 8:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

LW
Member
Posts: 26

You are welcome Dale and now I have to make sure that we take our 3 Hand powered suction devices are out of our prospecting tool carts :( def don't want any tickets to give them the satisfaction...

July 3, 2013 at 2:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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